240 Volt Breaker Compatible With Vera Secure

I am looking for a 240 volt breaker that I can use to switch power on and off to a well pump. I am running a Vera Secure so I guess it could be Zwave, ZigBee or WiFi. Does anyone know of such a device?

Need more information:
How many Amps does the motor draw?

It draws 20 amps.

You will need to use a 240V Contactor(Relay) in conjunction with a z-wave relay.
Google is your best friend here in finding a contactor locally, any single z-wave relay will switch it.
If you’re unsure about how to wire it up then contact an Electrician.

Wiring it will be a breeze. I was just hoping someone made a zwave breaker I could swap out with the current non-zwave breaker. I guess I will be going the contractor relay route instead. Thanks for the help. I hadn’t really looked at the contractor relay that closely.

Isn’t Aeotec Heavy duty switch a good contender here?

1-st solution: Use any magnetic contactor with any z-wave relay.
relays can be fit in DIN-mounted cases.
2-nd solution - Aeotec dirty switch
3 - Heatit Z-Relay (25A version) (also contains inputs for 2 NTC and 1 water leak sensor)

Trackerkick asked for a 240VAC Relay @20A.
The other solutions are OK for 120VAC.

?
Heavy duty switch is rated rated for 250VAC/40A or 240VAC 5HP AC Motor as far as i can read… Havent tested it myself though… :slight_smile:

Could work depends on where the OP is located?
I’d still opt for the Electricians way of doing it just to be safe.

Aeotec and Headit maked for 220-240.
As i remember, RU/EU version of HdSW connected betwween line and neutral only (220-240v/50Hz), in US - can be connected between two phases (240/60) and between phase and neutral (half).

Better to re-check manuals.
And, please remember, resistive load cannot be compared to inductive. Better to double-check.

This. I would only use an appropriately-rated contactor in a metal enclosure for this kind of application–even barely 5KW is not to be trifled with. When the expected failure mode (and it will fail some day) is arcing at the contacts, with the likelihood of considerable heat generated and the possibility of excitement of surrounding materials, there’s no off-the-shelf Z-Wave device that I would ever trust to direct control of that motor, labels/specs to the contrary.

IMO, if you were really doing this right, you would also include an overload relay between the contactor and motor. And of course, all wiring and other circuit protection properly sized and derated.

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Eventhough i agree with you, @rigpapa, a part of me also would like to contest the “old and approved” approach for ever on…

The old faithful contactor is just a relay with huge contacts connecting in a blaze of sparks (and even worse EM effects), and if you compare that to an intellegent relay like the Widom energy switch, which applies the relay when voltage potential is at 0V, producing an almost seamless initiation, I would think that is the better way?

I’m talking principles here, presuming the thread-starter got his answer… :slight_smile:

Agree that electronic switching has benefits, and you could even go as far as to put the motor on a VFD and soft-start it, if the application permits (I’ve done a lot of this). Gets pricey though. But if you have something that’s starting and stopping frequently and runs at a high load, there’s good cause to compare long-term costs. Contactors are good for less-frequent switching of really big loads inexpensively.

I’d want to see some proof on the Widom… a zero-crossing comes about every 8ms in US power, so the peak is 4ms after… there’s always a delay between application of control voltage to the coil and contact closure, so unless they have good smarts with timing, and even then, they’d have to get very consistent relay closure within a full cycle at worst, and a fraction of cycle to really get any benefit… hmmm. I smell a marketing department at work. And it tops out at 12.5A.

The other reason I lean for the contactor is sustained load. Contactors tend to be beefy things, built to hold the rated load full time, and a good bit more temporarily. And their contacts often can be replaced easily and quickly, without replacing the entire device. Widom and Aeotec die with their relays.

I just flipped the lid of a Widom i have, and found a SD3502 z-wave microcontroller coupled with a cs5490-isz measuring circuit. The latter has a digital output for zero-crossing. The 3502 probably runs at >12MHz, and the 5490 at >4MHz, in that world 4ms is a lifetime. :wink:
Considering this, its kinda strange that the others (Fibaro, Aeotec etc) doesn’t do this…

i use the the Intermatic CA3750 InTouch Wireless Multi-Volt 120-277VAC Contactor Module

updated version https://www.amazon.com/GE-Appliance-Required-Works-SmartThings-14285/dp/B00YTCZZF0/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp?crid=2XVY6NHSY4NK&keywords=intermatic+zwave&pd_rd_i=B00YTCZZF0&pd_rd_r=97798d15-5b80-441e-b63d-447a69848d0d&pd_rd_w=mBAiB&pd_rd_wg=oO2ba&pf_rd_p=a6d018ad-f20b-46c9-8920-433972c7d9b7&pf_rd_r=DHTTZN29HB6JE69GFW2S&qid=1574806594&s=hi&sprefix=Intermatic+z%2Ctools%2C236

https://www.amazon.com/Aeotec-Security-controller-electricity-consumption/dp/B00MBIRF5W/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp?crid=2XVY6NHSY4NK&keywords=intermatic+zwave&pd_rd_i=B00MBIRF5W&pd_rd_r=97798d15-5b80-441e-b63d-447a69848d0d&pd_rd_w=mBAiB&pd_rd_wg=oO2ba&pf_rd_p=a6d018ad-f20b-46c9-8920-433972c7d9b7&pf_rd_r=DHTTZN29HB6JE69GFW2S&qid=1574806594&s=hi&sprefix=Intermatic+z%2Ctools%2C236

In the world of a coil of wire pulling on a ferrous armature to join two contacts, 4ms is much longer. If that CPU were running a triac or similar electronic closure, sure, that’s done all the time. But it’s going to take a bit for that relay coil to saturate and do its work. This is why industrial UPS systems often use a large, though ultimately incapable, electronic switch (opposing SCRs, etc) to close, for example, a bypass path while a motor-operated switch or breaker is trying to close around it–the mechanical just can’t close fast enough to avoid a multi-cycle dropout, so the electronic takes the load instantly but only until the switch is closed, then step out (the electronic could never hold the load, but won’t destroy itself if the transfer completes in a few ms).

It’s not about the speed of the CPU. A 1980’s-era 6502 would be more than fast enough. It’s what the CPU controls. The relay isn’t fast enough.

As someone who has designed various systems using power line synchronization, let me jump in. Controlling a solid-state switch (TRIAC, back-to-back SCRs, MOSFETS/IGBTs) from a microprocessor is pretty simple and may be done with high accuracy. Controlling small relays to provide open/close at zero-crossing can be done by having the MCU measure the relay open/close times during factory calibration, then continuously measuring the relay’s performance during normal operation and adjusting for aging effects. It’s possible to get within a few 10s of microseconds of zero-cross which is plenty good. As @rigpapa points out, heavy contactors have MUCH longer close and release times, and they can vary widely over time and temperature. The hybrid approach (invented by GE in the early 1980’s) of using back-to-back SCRs for clean ZV switching and a contactor to carry the load long-term is the only practical way to pull this off. This also eliminates contact bounce from the contactor and arcing effects. When the load is turned off the SCRs are turned on just before the contactor is de-energized and the load sees a clean ZC turn-off from the SCRs once the contactor is open. If the loads are capacitive or inductive the problem becomes much more complex as the current lags or leads the voltage and zero-cross voltage switching may not be useful.

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Hey guys thanks for all the information. It gave me a lot of information I can use to continue on with my project. It may have to wait a little while as we got hit with a large amount of snow and a little cold recently which makes these projects no fun here in northern Minnesota, USA.

I thought you guys were on 120v anyway?

Whatever: Happy Thanksgiving!

C

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