3 way no neutral 2 wire

hello all, once upon a time i used the old fibaro dimmer modules to create a 2 way, 2 wire no neutral instalation i.e. the below

are there devices now that can do this? (without new wires ofcourse)

I’m confused. This diagram shows a neutral. Do you mean no traveller (a third conductor typical in two+ switch-controlled light circuits)?

I think he may be referring to the fact that there is no neutral present at the switches or z-wave device - only at the load. Many z-wave devices require a neutral to work (as I’m sure you are well aware of! :slight_smile:)

Yep - Neutral to the switch is what we are discussing.

No electrical circuit will work.without a neutral to the light.


So back on topic, I know dimmer 1 works like that, should I buy some second hands ones or is there a zwave plus version that does the same

I see. That would make this quite a special purpose setup that only operates with a limited set of bulbs (I don’t believe it would work well for CFL, LED, etc., just incandescent/halogen/resistive). It relies on sufficient current passing through the bulb when it’s “off” that the operating current demand of the device itself is met. That means the bulb is always “hot” even when switched off. It also means that the neutral reference (N terminal) at the device changes: when the bulb is off, it’s at house neutral potential, but when the bulb is on, it goes up to line minus (bulb) load (because O goes to line). If anybody tries to use that N terminal as a source of neutral for something else, they’re going to have a bad time. This kind of thing gives me the creeps. And maybe others have realized it’s not such a great idea either (if only because it isn’t a great solution for LEDs, etc.), and that’s why OP can’t find devices to do it any more.

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Depending on how it was wired you can put the insert at the light. i would need to see photos of wires. Is the installation tubed or double sheathed cable?

Hands down for this situation the best “smart dimmer” out there is the Lutron Caseta Dimmers… no-neutral required. And you can use Pico remotes for the second switch if there is one. However this is an expensive route to go… as if you want to then integrate the Caseta Dimmer with Vera, you will need to use the Caseta Pro Bridge (note must be PRO version not the standard version), and the Lutron RadioRA2 plug in.

I went with the Caseta’s in a few locations in my house because they either didn’t have a neutral, or in one case, I have the massive Multi LED chandelier thing that basically will only work with Caseta/Lutron dimmers, haven’t found a Z-wave switch yet that could handle it. I also use Caseta’s for bedrooms because the Pico remotes make a awesome bed side control for the ceiling lights.

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so it is working now with sets of two LED lamps in each of my two use cases. Cant confirm the danger element but i guess you are probably right but as only two cables are passing betweent the two switches their probably isnt an alternative.

so bad idea but only these switches support this idea as i see it. sooo i should buy more i guess eh?

there are single cables going everywhere, one cable in its own plastic container. the light situation is interesting as I could possibly hide a small module in the fixtures. would this work? how? would you have to add a cable beetween the two light fixtures basically?

If singles going every where then the house is tubed . It sounds like you can either pull a neutral down to the switch ( using cable lubricant) or if there is a p live at the light place the insert there. As said before i would need pictures of connections and cables at light and behind to be sure.

You should also see this thread: Wiring Aeotec Nano Dimmer in 3-way setup

With the Nano Dimmers, you can put the dimmer in the JBOX for the light fixture itself (where the neutral will exist), and use a appropriate switch for dimming (you need a pulse style switch for the dimming to be controllable from the switch, or use their fancy switch)…

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Agreed. Aeotec Nano Dimmer-- all the way! I have like 10 in my no-neutral house

Fibaro dimmer 2 can still be connected 2 wire, but they (and anyone else) offcourse recomends 3 wire.

The 2 wire is easier to install in older houses, many of my dimmer boxes had no Neutral. I still made the effort to get neutral in to the unit, as there are som advantages to 3 wire connection in use with LED bulbs…

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You could also look at Inovelli’s Red Series Dimmer which supports 2-wire install as well. https://inovelli.com/red-series-dimmer-switch-z-wave/

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