📈 Forum activity check

No idea how you’re missing all this stuff.

I’ve got 3 threads with unread posts in the last 30 minutes or so.

I probably post more than 5 times a day on my own…

C

looking solid but here are a lot more factors to a healthy community other than the number of posts and topics.

quality of content, daily engaged users, new contributors, numbers of signups among other things. and they are all in a crescendo since the transition.

we’re also adding more vera staff into the community

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In the last 3 hours I’ve got 12 new posts on several threads and one new thread…

C

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I can guarantee you that the new FW and the GH integration will boost the post rate…

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Where do you see new posts? I have 1 new topic and one post (this thread)

If I go to latest I see attached. Counting 10-12 replies this day?

It depends on how many threads you subscribe to. The more topic you post in, the more you will subscribe to. If you want to see all the new posts, you can go to the “latest” section and see all the updated threads now called topics. The 10-12 are not reply counts but topics which got a reply. Many got much more than 1. The ezlo devs and users tagged developers also have a private section which is very active at the moment with all the testing going on where we update one another about our findings and suggestions.

It is definitely picking up. Not as many posts daily as in the past, but seems there is increased interest.

13 posts in 6 topics overnight

C

Yes, same here. But I have to go to latest manually and then click all topics to “find” them. The previous forum was more intuitive there.

It was
I think I managed to subscribe to loads of threads. I have a link to ‘Latest’

I did have a longish discussion with Sorin about the insanity of new threads not being shown as ‘un-read’ and I totally agree the old software was far more sensible in that respect but meh.

C

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Sorry Vera, I think this forum is dead. As well as the support mailbox?

I look at the same interval on https://community.home-assistant.io/ and there about 40-80 topics per 6 hours are posted… here 0-1…

I sent about 5 reminders to the support mailbox last week, but no reply…

Oh Vera, what’s happening?

iu

A picture is worth a thousand words. Let’s just hope vera gets back up after the fall…
A lot is hinging around the pace of updates and releases and I must confess is much too slow. We all get excited and then nothing comes out… (sorry Atom doesn’t count, much too underwhelming) I know progress have been made behind the scene but it’s too little too late. Much more needs to be released more frequently for the forum to come alive.

That picture, it says so much… :laughing:

I’m trying to identify your requests and have the team pick this up. Sorry about this.

We all know what happens when things are rushed but it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be faster.

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn’t talking about rushing anything. If you read my various posts and this one too. I am saying you should pace to a higher rate of release which would lead to much greater software quality by taking smaller steps each time. Right now we are observing long intervals between releases and very large amount of changes which are poorly tested and as far as the community can see… poor quality. You don’t need to rush anything to release bad quality… Look at the vera history

If you take smaller steps… say only a handful of commits between releases and allow your community to beta test it so you can fix them before general public releases which would be at a much higher rate, you would get a greater community participation and firmware quality.

As I see 7.0.30 is way too ambitious to be taken as a single step for example. The content could and should have been split into 3-4 releases. The work @edward has done on the luaUPnP program alone could have been 1-2 general public releases which would have greatly improved stability of a large number of customers. It is all about how you manage it… You are taking the risk to have much bigger release increments, much more difficult to troubleshoot for your teams and lower quality overall, as well as a less active community.

For comparison, Home Assistant has a public release every 5-10 days… The state of their software stability is leaps and bounds better than vera, granted with much greater resources. If you could get to a rhythm of even 1/3 of that, you would be in a much better place.

Hubitat likewise when I was following them had a new firmware release every week. No matter how small the changes were. They enabled us to test it and if buggy, get reverted or fixed the following week.

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Sorry, I just have to interject on this one. One of the reasons I stopped using HomeAssistant is that it seemed every fourth of fifth release contained breaking changes that sent me scrambling to fix automations, or UI, or something. I routinely found things that didn’t work as documented in both core and components. On top of this, component updates are inconsistent: some fast, some slow, some good, some bad. There are currently 822 open issues in Github for Hass. The development team fixes things when they feel like it. Balloob lords over everything. In several cases past, where several users pointed out completely conflicting behavior vs the documentation, it took months to get fixes, and a few issues that I participated in are even today not yet fixed. Patches abound, and often are lost and need to be redone, or are invalidated completely and need to be reconceived, by core updates. And among many of the component developers with whom I had interaction (including pyvera, the library used to connect HA to Vera), things were often regarded as “working good enough” and there was little that could be done to motivate the improvements necessary to make things right (for reference, the lead developer of pyvera even told me he doesn’t really use Hass himself, he just uses his library for his own stuff, so Hass is a secondary customer in his world).

I would not say that’s leaps and bounds better than Vera. At best, it may be on similar footing. But I never even came close to getting my Hass automations as deep and as reliable as what I can do on Vera (eating my own dog food–I use my own plugins, so I know if I can get done what I need, so can this community, or I’ll fix it).

You know that you and I agree completely on a fast release cycle; we’ve discussed that many times, so no argument there at all. And yes, adamantly, 7.0.30 has become a perfect example of why they must.

But I would not hold up Hass as a shining example of software quality, and I would not be happy if Vera’s release behavior was like that of Hass.

Hass is a community-developed product. It literally has +1,600 contributor who have made contributions at various levels, some continuously, some just once. This type of product naturally will have a lot more discussion. It also runs on a variety of OSs, and a larger variety of hardware, and with several different Z-Wave sticks and other connectivity components. So naturally, there’s going to be a lot more questions. There’s also going to be a lot more problems. So they have a lot to talk about.

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You both have a point.

But… asking something on HASS, gives me a real answer with a real solution. And next release it is fixed.

Veras last updat was about a year? And the next one is in beta for ages now… and I only know by reading so e posts on this forum and not even those from Vera themselves.

+1 on that.

I left my HA install on a particular version as it was working nicely. I needed something on a newer version which was 5 points ahead of my own and as soon as I updated all hell broke loose on the breaking changes front.

That coupled with some really unhelpful “wise guys” on the forum turned me off HA completely.

I came back to VERA after a two year lay off and have to admit the forum is a breath of fresh air in comparison. No smart asses. Just users trying to help each other.

If anyone wants the frantic update cycle HA is definitely the place for them. I think I had enough when I started to see plugins for cat flaps and bin collections.

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No HA is not ideal. I was trying to illustrate what could be.
I have had no unfixable issues with them and yeah… I dislike the breaking changes too which is the reason why I don’t update unless I need to. The point is that the release rate they are at enables them to fix and implement in much safer increments and they are not shy about reverting code.
Also, I ran my own branch for some time and implemented my own fixes when the main branch was too slow to implement them. I actually contributed some fixes there too. I spend very little time on their forum. Only on an as need basis. It is just too fast to keep up with but if you are looking for a live forum… this is it. It is an extreme vera does not need to go to (neither do I think that it can since it is not community driven) but could certainly learn some from.

I have to say, I’d be remiss if I did not acknowledge our (my and other developers’) contribution to that. We asked for a lot to be fixed. And to their credit, they addressed almost everything we asked for. Now reading all of this and thinking about the process, @rafale77 and I actually broke our own rules that we are promoting by doing that. I think we were just so caught off guard by having one of the Vera Devs listening and responding to every single thing we said, the attention we’ve asked for for so long, that when we got it, we asked for too much, and perhaps we should have backed off as well.

So, for the current Beta that I know many of you are waiting on, don’t blame only Vera for the timing. We hold some responsibility for that as well, and I will take that as a lesson to go into the future.

But I also want to be sure you (the community) understand, moreso than ever before, the Vera Devs have been involved with us and listening to us. It gives me high confidence that when we find the right rhythm, strike the right balance, we will get that consistently fast progress we are looking for.

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