After looking at all the options, the simplest seems to be using multi-relay switches. I watched a video where a rancher used outdoor plug-in z-wave devices to control sprinklers throughout his ranch. He found that the switch would work with 24vAC. Running with this idea I purchased three Vision ZL7432US dual relay units. I took the old 24vAC transformer from an existing controller and connected it to the power leads on the relay and paired it with Vera and it works perfectly. I can send the 24vAC from the power leg to either output leg. The units are tiny and it only takes two units to run my system however I purchased and installed a third for expansion. I don’t doubt there are other posts here about this but I have not found them so thought I would post to see if anyone else had better ideas.
UPDATE: I added a photo showing everything ready to go except wiring to the valves which will terminate on the right side of the terminal blocks. It turned out more compact than any irrigation controller available.
This looks really interesting. I’d like to do something similar. I have seen 12v DC solenoid water values that fit garden hose. Could you explain your system a little more as I dont understand how the wiring works. Thanks.
In the photo I installed three duel relay units. The way they work is they have a hot and neutral AC wires. The hot or black wire not only powers the internal electronics but ties through the contacts of each relay output to another wire; it’s this output wire from each relay that powers the sprinkler. All the white wires (neutral) tie together in one way or another. In my case I use the terminal blocks as you can see in the photos. The source AC is simply my old sprinkler 120vac to 24vac transformer.
Interesting, I wish I had known sooner. I was looking for a low voltage AC switch for something else. amazing that the relay can be powered with 24V AC. It is the same relay as the monoprice one by the way
I guess I look at 3 z-wave relays at 40 to 44.00 each, so 120.00 to 135.00.
I bought my Open Sprinkler for 99.00
Has internet weather, built in programming, phone apps, web UI, vera plugin, 8 zones vs. 6 with optional expansion and more.
You menchined size, and open sprinkler fits in your palm and is about 2 inch thick.
I’m trying to see the benefit and unless your not using it for sprinklers I can’t see much. What am I missing?
For me it is because I only need one channel. Open Sprinkler is actually a $180-200 once you make it wifi and add shipping (I am not sure how you got it to $99) which ads bulk since you need to add an AP.
Overall it is a $29 (for the single relay) investment (Monoprice shipping included, I actually bought the dual for $27 on sale a while ago) Vs ~$200 and a much easier installation and integration into the vera since it is only a relay. I don’t want a dedicated phone app just for irrigation, I have too many already.
[quote=“anhman, post:6, topic:186732”]For me it is because I only need one channel. Open Sprinkler is actually a $180-200 once you make it wifi and add shipping (I am not sure how you got it to $99) which ads bulk since you need to add an AP.
Overall it is a $29 (for the single relay) investment (Monoprice shipping included, I actually bought the dual for $27 on sale a while ago) Vs ~$200 and a much easier installation and integration into the vera since it is only a relay. I don’t want a dedicated phone app just for irrigation, I have too many already.[/quote]
Yeah one channel is a different story.
I have an Open Srinkler DIY kit. it was 99.00 no tax and 5.00 shipping so was actually 105.00 out the door. I already had a irrigation (rainbird) before and I use the same box and power supply that was already mounted on the wall. I hardwired my internet as I do with any permanent devices.
Vera integration is: install plugin and enter IP address of Open Sprinkler. (I stopped using this as I had no gain from it being in vera)
Phone app is optional and not required. Open Sprinkler has a full WEB UI that you can use for setup and timers, weather, and what ever you want to add or not to make it a smart system. For example in california we are in a drought and has special restrictions. With the latest update this was added in helping users comply if they choose to.
[quote=“Radjin, post:1, topic:186732”]After looking at all the options, the simplest seems to be using multi-relay switches. I watched a video where a rancher used outdoor plug-in z-wave devices to control sprinklers throughout his ranch. He found that the switch would work with 24vAC. Running with this idea I purchased three Vision ZL7432US dual relay units. I took the old 24vAC transformer from an existing controller and connected it to the power leads on the relay and paired it with Vera and it works perfectly. keto slim I can send the 24vAC from the power leg to either output leg. The units are tiny and it only takes two units to run my system however I purchased and installed a third for expansion. I don’t doubt there are other posts here about this but I have not found them so thought I would post to see if anyone else had better ideas.
UPDATE: I added a photo showing everything ready to go except wiring to the valves which will terminate on the right side of the terminal blocks. It turned out more compact than any irrigation controller available.[/quote]
Had never thought of running these on 24vac but it makes sense that it would work. The voltage is cut down to the operating voltage for the circuitry inside anyhow…
yeah a few years old now and I am still using this setup for a 6 channel irrigation system using three of these vision dual relays. In hindsight, though not especially cost effective(~$80), it is very reliable, easy/simple to setup and very reliable without need of any cloud, apps or plugins.
Most importantly, easy to repair if need be and fully controllable. As long as you don’t mind coding the irrigation routines yourself, not bad at all. Very creative…
Just wanted to say thanks for this, I never would have guessed some of the Z-wave relay devices could be powered by 24 VAC. I plan to try this, and will report back after some experience is accrued. As others stated, I think the attraction to this method is the simplicity if one already has a vera set up. I was looking at opensprinker (already have opengarage and love it) but just want a simple solution to some 24 VAC sprinkler solenoids distributed over the property. I wish opensprinkler better handled multiple node points via its add-on extra station card but it doesn’t work over ethernet, which is what I distributed over the property. I guess I could get RS232 over ethernet working or somesuch, but think this is a lot more attractive.
I use similar system with Fibaro’s RGBW device. It has 4 outputs and can be powered with 12 or 24V DC (max 6A per channel, if I remember). In my case the setup is irrigating plants on the balcony and inside the house via dripping installation, using water stored in the tanks (don’t have possibility to use running water).
I have 3 zone system so far, 2 zones on the balcony (pump + 2 valves) and the third one inside (pump only).
Recently I’ve upgraded the system integrating Xiaomi Mi flower sensors. As they can’t be directly connected to Vera, I used Domoticz installed on a raspberry Pi Zero for that purpose, which is then sending ON/OFF commands to Vera.
The Fibaro RGBW looks useful so I ordered one (4 in / 4 PWM out @ 244 Hz).
As you likely know, one of the benefits of using 24 VAC instead of DC is that once the solenoid activates, the reactance increases which causes the current to drop to around 1/3 its initial value. Since the RGBW has PWM, one could design a parasitic RLC circuit to sit on each channel to achieve efficiency and overheating-avoidance benefits based on the same effect. Essentially a capacitor would be used to shape the PWM at 50% duty cycle into a pseudo-sinusoid to eliminate high-frequency effects. Did you play with this as well, adding the correctly sized cap would likely either improve your initial clamping current or improve solenoid lifetime based on what voltage specs you selected for drive and load.
^^^
I’d play safe and use a devices that is designed for use with 24V AC or DC.
[size=2]For an out of box solution you can use a[font=Verdana] Philio PAN05 or ZWBCL2 which are ideal for this use and there are many in use in proven irrigation systems world wide.[/font][/size]
Thanks for the reply. I would like to propose the idea that installing the correctly specified RLC circuit to a DC-driven AC solenoid is in fact a safety precaution to reduce steady-state current. That is, I believe the rationale advanced above indeed does improve safety per your suggestion. For instance, such a design is absolutely less likely to overheat. Such overheating can cause grass fires-- I live in California and as such I do my best to avoid ignition sources both indoors and outdoors.
If one were to control irrigation solenoids with relay switches, I believe it is absolutely important for people to understand that a DC controlled AC solenoid does not feature the significant reduction in current once clamped, which can cause a variety of problems.
I’m new to the forum, is it within typical operating procedure here to suggest a link to your own product for sale without obviously disclosing it? Especially when commenting against a technical comment specifically intended to advance the considerations posed by those browsing this thread? Your comment feels a bit like self-promotion to me. From a quick read, there are obviously technically minded DIY’ers here, some of which may be professionals during their work lives whom may have already designed such an RLC circuit. I haven’t gone through the details yet, and was hoping somebody might already have a favorite circuit in use. If I get around to it, I’ll post a schematic.
Cheers
EDIT: For the record, after I posted this reply, you edited your post but did not call out your changes you made to your original text. This causes me additional concern since your stealth edit causes confusion which is not helpful. You may want to edit your post above again to at least repair your newly-broken sentence construction.
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