MiOS Application - early Beta enrollment

Not necessarily every month, for the moment nobody manages to do an OTA update on the zwave devices for example, what will it be like to have an update of the box if my devices do not have not changed, my usage has not changed … my needs have not changed. Yes home automation needs to evolve I agree with that, when I see the Vera receiving an annual update when there are new devices and new services it’s a little frustrating but often not necessary if nothing did change in the house. My vision is that home automation is there to help me but I must not depend on it either or restrict myself or force myself to do this or that to keep it working. The future will tell.
Perhaps a survey in the form of a form could see more clearly on the expectations of the users and give an axis, what do you think?
In any case, it’s good to discuss it
:slightly_smiling_face:

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When I do a Vera setup for someone now days I use a Sonos One running Google assistant with Google home for the primary voice assistant. If needed I use Amazon Alexa minis for the secondary voice assistants. I use Google assistant as the primary voice assistant because it responds a lot faster than Alexa and provide a better user experience. I use Alexa for secondary voice assistants because Alexa supports a lot more device then Google. I use google assistant and Alexa as the software controls as they have a large section of apps and integrate with a lot more products then the Vera. I use Vera as the hardware controller for the Z-wave and zigbee network. The bulk of the scene are done on Google and Alexa the only sense I do on Vera relate to sensors and timers. If setup correctly there is no reason for a end use to assess the Vera controller or look at a Dashboard unless they need to add another device.

The only real pain points I have right now are devices that only provide integration with Apple home and integrating with home security panels such as Honeywell and DSC

Just explaining my lack of excitement.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate.

What is the life span of a vera controller 5 years, 10 years? Lets take the cost a VeraSecure and dived that buy the cost of your monthly subscription, where is the breakeven point?

Its not for Microsoft soft products, backup solution, video games, hosting costs, lease agreements and most of other subscription model, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

How will your software work, if some sign up for one month to get updates than cancels there subscription what happens to their product? If a person has 4 products that are all linked together will they need to pay for one subscription or 4 subscriptions? What will your solution offer that is not currently available?
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I agree, the home automation industry has is very little support from the device manufactures for software developers. The other problem is once you have a good product it’s hard for software developers to get good exposure for their products. If you’re not selling products you’re not making money, if you’re not making money there is zero motivation to share your work and have to deal with end users. If a device manufactures want to sell more products you would think it would be in there best interests to build and regulate a strong support system for independent software developers like what you see for phones or in the gaming industry.

I would say end users treated Home automation system like they do security systems, they want it setup and never have to touch the control ever again unless they need to add something.

Home automation needs to be part of the house as furniture, because if you install home automation system the functioning of the house depends on the home automation system, if i need to pay monthly fee to turn on lights i will not install home automation system, as well as i don’t want to pay monthly subscription to be able to sit on the sofa. Monthly fee is ok if i get something extra of the system, like monitoring or cloud storage for the cameras or integration with another system.

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thanks for this explanation, but what about the Ezlo App? Is it planned to have only one application at the end? What is the state of play? Screenshots?

Hardware lets say 15- 20 years…
The disconnect here is, you think “hardware” on its own is the product. It is not!
we are happy to sell our controllers for one off standard price just like everyone else and offer 3-5 year maximum support (no problem there). We want to give users who want software updates a choice without penalizing them.

Just one subscription. we want this to be very easy.

What you are missing is, because the manfacturer of the device makes money from the device, they want to create a silo and lock the user into their devices. they don’t want to open it up to anyone. Very different than game industry etc.

Yes me too! Just set up and go!

See here:

First of all, you pay monthly for your electricity so you are paying monthly to turn your lights on…And rightly so, because people who provide the electricity employ people to deliver that service to you and they pay those people’s salaries every month.

We do have a one off payment model. We will happily take one off payments as they are today and provide you a support for 3-5 years for the controller (which is fair).

Yes you are right about the electricity, but electricity is a service not a physical product, when you purchase a physical product i expect to work without additional cost like the tv or sofa or refrigerator

We do have a one off payment model. We will happily take one off payments as they are today and provide you a support for 3-5 years for the controller (which is fair).

This works for me.

That is exactly the disconnect. People treat home automation devices as furniture.
Your sofa does not need a software update! Controllers do and I am only talking about Controllers and NOT End devices. End devices might not need update. Maybe we should start differentiating between “A controller” (which is what we are talking about) vs “end device” … What do you think?

Wrong i pay for units used not a one off monthly fee. So if the HA was the same, i would be paying for cloud services requests used, not a one off fee

Ok lets say that you are right. Please convince me why i should pay monthly fee to Ezlo for the hardware that i bought? And why should i buy a hardware from ezlo if i need to pay additional monthly fee to be able to use what i purchased already. And why not to pass ezlo and go on Home Assistant which is free, open source, and at the moment it has integration with 1632 device types and systems - official (zwave counts as one, zigbee also so add the supported zigbee and zwave devices on that number), and god knows how many 3rd party.

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when you say ezlo: are you referring to our “controller hardware”?
when you say “hardware” are you referring to “end devices” like sensors?

We are talking about Ezlo not fibaro or Aeotec or etcc. when i say hardware and writing to you i mean your hardware why should i pay for your hardware + monthly subscription for that hardware

Thanks for the info.

The problem is long term support. This is a new product and is likely that it will evolve over time. Inevitably, one day, it will not be working on the older Android version and support will default to the minimum requirement spec.

I think that 8.1 as a minimum requirement is not reasonable considering how fast new android versions are coming out. Android 6 or 7 would be more inline with what we see elsewhere.

My 2 cents

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You can buy Ezlo with one off payment. You shouldn’t have to pay monthly subscription for it.
That one payment should buy you update for that controller for 3-5 years.

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That is fair. But i have one question that is a little bit confusing. Let assume that i will purchase Ezlo Atom today i will get a free updates in the next 3-5 years that is clear, because the assumption is that in 3-5 years Atom will be EOL anyway and you will not push updates. But what will happen if:

  1. You decide that Atom is still competitive on the market and you should keep it for sale another 2-3 years, that only I will not get updates?
  2. if somebody buys the Atom 3 years from now how much time he will get updates?

the price you pay day 1, is enough to pay developers salaries for 3-5 years.
how will I pay for software developers after 3-5 years?
Can you pay some extra fee for update?

Now that I think about you are correct. Now days when I design home automation system I use the controllers as networking device. I use the hardware controllers as a connection point to the software controllers. When I’m looking for a device to add to the hardware controller I look for devices that have good drive support for the hardware controller and what apps support is available though the digital assistances.

I hear what you’re saying, instead of providing free OS updates and selling feature updates it’s easier to charge a monthly fee and do both.

If I want to write a app for your platform are you going to have developer kits available for us like I have access to when I write a app for the digital assistances? Have you guys worked out yet how what percentage your app store will take for selling our apps?

we would love it for you to write new plugins/capabilities.
I don’t know how many % but it will be reasonable.

it is good to develop but it would be necessary to ensure the maintenance and the evolution as well. On other solutions, evolutions, plugins and addons are paid and often not updated, maintained or even abandoned, leaving users blocked. That’s why I don’t like it when it’s not the manufacturer’s devs who develop because with them, at least, the user will have follow-up, upgrades and maintenance.

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